To read aloud
NINETEENTH DIALOGUE
January 14, 1999
Peter: Why do I have a feeling that we have not yet finished our
discussion on the issue of the Christian concept of rapture and on what
happens immediately after one’s death, as derived from Paul’s
statements in the quoted verses at the end of the Eighteenth Dialog?
The Lord Jesus Christ: Because, Peter, some further clarifications are
needed regarding these issues. First, let’s take the issue of Paul’s claim,
and of his loyal Christian followers, that anyone who dies will stay dead
until My Second Coming — as if they fall asleep and then I wake them
up to join Me in My appearance on the literal clouds in the air. If you
take into consideration the axiomatic fact, unconditionally accepted by
Paul and his followers likewise, that I am the only source of life, being
that I am life in, by, of and from Myself, and that all life generates from
Me and that without My Absolute Life, which is being unceasingly
radiated into everyone, keeping them alive, no one could survive for a
fraction of a second, then Paul’s conclusions in this respect are totally
illogical and they don’t make any sense.
One of the major problems that Paul had, which was also his downfall,
was that he had no concept of the nature of spiritual correspondences or
what a true spiritual life was all about. From his statements about this
and many other issues, it is obvious that in contradiction to all other
statements that he made, he assumed that the spirit and soul of the
human body somehow depend on that body and not the other way around
— that the body’s life depends on the spirit and its soul. So, when the
body dies, what happens to that spirit and soul? Are they placed in some
kind of limbo, or wherever, where they are kept in suspended animation
until I execute My Second Coming? To assume that, means to assume
that I am also dead or in some kind of suspended animation. At one point
in time, something stirs in Me and I wake up and, out of the blue, I
decide to begin with My Second Coming. Why is it that I would also be
considered dead or in deep slumber or sleep — if Paul’s illogical
statement were to be correct? Because if you admit that I am the life, and
the life of everyone is from Me, and that I am in that life, then, from this
logically follows that whenever someone dies, losing his/her life, I also die
because I am that life in him/her. Of course, if such a thing were possible,
the entire being and existence and pseudo-being and pseudo-existence,
and all their respective sentient entities would also cease to be and exist.
On the other hand, if the spirit and soul of the dead individual are put in
some kind of suspended animation until My Second Coming, everyone’s
entire life would likewise be in such a condition because of the factor that
I am the life of his/her spirit and soul. However, let us assume for a
moment that something like that is possible. Can you imagine what a
terrible waste of life force energy, sleeping somewhere in suspended
animation or in total dormancy, not being utilized for anything
productive, useful or fruitful? Such a situation is utterly impossible. My
life in everyone and everything is continuously and unceasingly active,
dynamic, progressive and constantly alive in the condition of full
wakefulness and productive actions within everyone’s spirit and soul. It
is only the physical body of humans and of some other creatures that
sleeps and/or dies because it has no life in itself or by itself. So, in this
respect Paul’s assumption and the assumption of some of his Christian
followers, is totally off. Everyone’s spirit and soul, after their human
physical body dies, continue to live forever in an active, fully functional
condition and mode with the full preservation of their ‘I am’ and full
conscious awareness of being alive. Based on this factor, the second
assumption, assuming that your physical body will be transfigured at the
time of My Second Coming — if you are still alive on planet Zero at that
time — in a process called ‘the rapture’ by some Christians, is likewise
off.
Once again, Paul was too literal in this respect, disregarding the
spiritual factor of this process and to what it corresponds. Although he
was aware that there were different types of bodies, besides the physical
type which is made out of matter, nevertheless, he assumed that this
matter-type of body could be fully engaged in the process of the rapture
and stay alive at the same time. Of course, as you know from the
principles of your elementary physics, such a body could not survive in
space somewhere up there in the clouds in the air without some
protective devices. However, Paul assumed that some kind of
transformative process would take place in that body, making it immune
to disintegration and decay. According to him, this would be an
instantaneous occurrence.
If such a thing were possible, then the human body I had, and which I
took with Me after My resurrection, could have also been changed
instantaneously and the process of its transfiguration into an immortal
entity wouldn’t have taken almost 20 centuries. As you see from this
factor, none of the physical laws can be broken. Because of its nature, the
physical body is subject to space-time continuum laws. This is the reason
why My New Nature was not made overnight, so-to-speak, but it took a
long period of time, from your conceptualization of time, to accomplish
this goal. Of course, in the non-spatial, non-temporal state, the factors of
time and space are totally irrelevant. If it were possible for a relative
human physical body to undergo such transfiguration and change, as it
happened to My physical body from the position of My Absolute State,
Condition and Process, it would have to take many centuries to complete
such a process, just as it took Me to accomplish it. In that case, it could
not happen instantaneously, as Paul assumed. Of course, no such thing
is possible for a relative human body, which clothes a relative human
being. The word ‘relative’ in itself denotes the temporality of its
condition. Because of that, the human physical body cannot forever serve
that purpose for its spirit and soul. After it serves its purpose, it is put
aside — in other words, it dies — and the respective spirit and its soul
acquire a different type of external body, adjusted to the condition and
state in which they will reside afterwards.
So, let us assume, what would happen to your body if some of you, My
agents, are still on planet Zero at the time when either the negative state
is in a total pseudo-winning position, or at the time of the final phase of
My Second Coming? Several things could happen: Either you would
physically die by so-called natural causes, or you would continue to live
in that body until your mission is completed; or you would be placed in a
special situation, during which, your human physical body would be put
aside and a new body would be created for you, congruent to the needs of
your new spiritual assignment and mission. It is impossible for your
human mind to comprehend at this particular time the kind of process it
takes to accomplish this creation. There are some other possibilities in
this respect but they are of an absolute nature and impossible for you to
grasp. Some aspects of it will be possible for you to understand after you
are out of your human life. Because of that, at this point nothing can be
said about this issue. Therefore, we should close this subject for now.
Peter: Thank You very much for this explanation. As you know, last
night in my telephone conversation with Dan and Olga, an interesting
issue was raised. It related to the abandoned children in Russia and
Russian orphanages, as well as to the conditions of children in Africa,
South America and in some other countries in Asia, and their
unimaginably bad situation and suffering. The question is, why is such a
phenomenon permitted with children?
The Lord Jesus Christ: First of all, it is a very good sign that you feel
compassion for their condition. One of the reasons that such awful
conditions are permitted with children, is to trigger feelings of
compassion in humans. Experiencing such feelings has a positive
connotation. Because of that, it will have redeeming qualities in humans’
final judgment and assessment of their spiritual state and makeup. The
way you have to understand this statement is in the fact of human
nature itself. If you carefully analyze the true human nature, you will
come to the inevitable conclusion that humans, left to themselves,
without any external prodding or examples, are incapable of experiencing
any positive emotions. After all, they are in the externals of the
externals. Also, they were fabricated in such a way, so that they would
not be able to have such positive emotions in, from and by themselves.
Due to the fact that humans are in this accursed position, in order to
enable them to have such positive feelings, external examples are set up
for them which function as a triggering, or to use a better word, inducing,
device for such emotions and feelings. Otherwise, they could not
experience anything positive. In that case, they would have to perish
eternally. Such an outcome of human destiny and fate would be
inconceivable to My Absolutely Merciful, Forgiving and Compassionate
Nature. So, an agreement was made with some sentient entities to
incarnate on planet Zero for the purpose of going through such horrible
experiences — horrible from your typical human standpoint — in order
to enable humans to have such positive emotions. In the past, before July
1, 1988, such volunteers came both from the positive state and the
negative state, respectively. Nowadays, especially after that date, they
incarnate on planet Zero only from the negative state.
This is one important aspect of such permission. There are several other
aspects, as important or even more important than the first one. Don’t
forget that these children are children only from your human standpoint.
They are not children from our standpoint. Their spirit and soul are fully
adult trapped in a child’s body, brain and nervous system. Therefore,
they are fully responsible and accountable for the choices they made in
this respect. Also, don’t forget what kind of parents and environment
they chose to incarnate into on planet Zero. In most instances, those are
the children of prostitutes, drug and alcohol addicts, psychopaths,
mentally ill, and similar individuals with insurmountable physical,
mental, economic and other types of problems, who have very little, if
any at all, remorse, guilt, consideration or sense for anyone or anything.
This is especially true about children in Russia and some other countries.
On the other hand, African children and children in some Latin countries
don’t suffer that much from the abandonment issue but more from civil
wars, insurrection, famine, poor economy, poor management, poor
physical and mental health, poor supplies of commercial goods and from
similar external factors.
At this point you can ask: Why do they put themselves into such a
horrible condition or why do they want to incarnate on planet Zero to
such parents? First of all, do you remember what was said in My New
Revelation about incarnating into human life? Everyone who incarnates
on planet Zero, without exception or exclusion, incarnates with problems
acquired in the special intermediate world as preparation for such an
incarnation and, at the very same time, everyone incarnates into the
problems inherent in the very nature of the human life. So, how much
knowledge do you have about the kind of problems they brought with
themselves and, most importantly, what they did and how they did it to
acquire such problems in order to deserve to be incarnated into such a
harsh and miserable condition and/or situation? How do you know if
their choice to be incarnated into such a life was not for the purpose of
redemption and/or for the purpose of bearing the consequences of their
former actions by which their respective problems, or whatever, were
acquired? Or for any other very important spiritual reasons which might
be beyond your comprehension and understanding? Do you think that I
would tolerate or permit anything of this nature to happen if it were not
to serve some very good purpose or if these individuals were not to take
upon themselves an assignment to illustrate that specific aspect of the
nature of the negative state and the human life? Of course not.
So, if you take into consideration these as well as many other factors, the
children in question might not be as innocent as they look or as you think
they are. One negative aspect of this situation with children is that it is
utilized by some so-called Christian charities and other similar
organizations to engage you financially in their effort to save these
children from their predicament. And although some of these
organizations do some good work in this respect, it is not uncommon that
in some instances, a substantial portion of your money goes into their
own pocket under the cover of overhead expenses. As you know so well,
in human life, anything can be utilized to enrich your own pocket, so-to-
speak. And what is a better way to do that than through human misery
and suffering and in the name of God? How many endeavors of this
nature have enriched the leaders and other members of such
organizations? They are masters of playing on your guilt feelings.
Remember please, guilt is a very negative emotion. To fall for that may
mean that you are playing right into the hands of the negative state.
Just look at the numerous advertisements they put on your television
screen regarding the suffering and misery of children in your world! They
purposefully show the most afflicted children in order to make you feel
guilty, ashamed and embarrassed that you live such a comfortable and
pleasant life — relative to their miserable conditions. They almost force
you to take out your checkbook and write them a check for a substantial
amount of money. That way you assuage your own guilt feelings and
other unpleasant emotions related to this situation with children. Has it
ever occurred to you that by doing that you might be preventing someone
or something from experiences which need to be experienced by the child
in question for some extremely important reasons, and that this was a
chosen destiny to illustrate something from which everyone can benefit
in the ultimate outcome of such choices? Do you remember the advice
given to you in Update 15 in the Corollaries..., that you need to learn to
look behind the scene and not at the scene because the truth for
everything happening in human life is behind it and not in it? If you
could look for a moment behind the scene, you would learn the most
beautiful lessons regarding the reasons for these kinds of experiences
with children, as well as for everyone and everything else, and also
regarding the outcome of all these events and how they fit in My Grand
Plan for the Salvation of all from the clutches of the negative state and
preventing that such things will ever happen again.
Now, this situation with suffering children and any other similar adverse
situations that take place on a continuous basis on your planet, lead
many humans to proclaim that I either don’t care any longer, or that I
am a cruel, punishing and inconsiderate God, or that I don’t exist at all.
Some of them get so frustrated with this type of injustice — in their view
— that they rebel against the impotence of various social and political
systems’ inability and/or unwillingness to do anything about it, and they
become instigators and/or supporters of various revolutions, upheavals,
terrorism and similar actions, very often leading to the overthrow of
existing governmental systems. After that, they establish their own
brand of social justice and political systems that are no better, if not
much worse, than what they overthrew.
So, the problem continues regardless of their effort to prevent it or to
eliminate it. The reason it continues is because they are unable to see the
reasons behind the scene why such suffering and misery are permitted to
happen and perpetuate in human life. They are not aware of the myriad
choices that need to be made in order to exhaust the usefulness for which
the negative state was allowed to come to fruition in the first place —
with all its abuses, perversions, suffering and abominable adversities.
The awful condition of children on your planet is a contributory factor in
this respect. And no matter how difficult it is for you to see their
suffering and misery, or to be aware of it, nevertheless, it serves its
ultimate positive purpose and it is happening by prior agreement and by
their own free will and choice. On the other hand, looking at the entire
situation regarding the suffering of children in an objective manner and
from the typical human standpoint, why do humans breed so much? Who
is forcing them to have so many children if they are unable to take care
of them and be responsible for their upbringing? This is especially true in
the countries where food is scarce, where famine and all kinds of
epidemics are a matter of daily life, where sanitary and other
environmental conditions are poor, where basic physical health is very
bad and overpopulation is rampant. No excuse exists for having children
under those kinds of adverse conditions. There are all kinds of birth
control measures available to avoid such a necessity. Of course, this
factor doesn’t take into consideration the spiritual reason and need for
this to be happening. So, let no one be upset about why, for what and for
how long this situation on planet Zero will continue to be that way.
Peter: Thank You very much for this explanation. Even though it is
extremely difficult and painful to accept children’s predicament on this
planet and be aware of their suffering, at least some of it, or that part of
it which is accessible to us, makes perfect sense to me personally, with
Your explanation. I have another question, which is somewhat out of
context in the presently discussed dialog. It was asked by Michael M.
from Massachusetts. After reading one of our Dialogs which addressed
the issue of prayers for others, he would like to know if the same rules
apply to the customs that some religiously minded humans (especially
Catholics) have by asking their elders when first meeting them and then
when they say goodbye for ‘la bendicion’ (God’s blessing) and when they
respond with ‘Dios te bendiga’ or ‘God bless you!’ How appropriate is this
in the light of that Dialog?
The Lord Jesus Christ: Although at first glance, from a typical
objective and human standpoint there is no harm in such a request, from
the spiritual standpoint no real value exists in its response, as well as in
saying to someone ‘God bless you’ when he/she is sneezing. Those are
empty habits, meaningless human traditions and customs perpetuated
for many centuries. They are from the externals to the externals.
Because of that, they can’t take hold in one’s internals where it counts.
Children should be taught to ask My blessings on their own. I don’t need
any mediators in order to be able to provide My blessings to them and to
all of you. I am present in everyone’s internals and from them also in
everything else of which they consist. From that presence, everyone has a
direct line of communication with Me. Through that line, everyone is
welcome to ask for My blessing. However, should anyone choose to do it
by mediation, either through an elder or through the clergy, the fact that
it is asked from the externals closes the doors to his/her internals and
prevents him/her from triggering a proper response. The factor of
mediation violates the fundamental law of Creation — that everything
proceeds from within to without. You can’t be someone else’s within. In
the position to the other one, you are always without (outside) of him/her.
How can you initiate anything useful from that position? So, in
answering Michael M.’s question, yes, what was conveyed to you in the
Dialog on prayer fully applies to the issue he raised. Thus, such things
should be avoided in order not to impede that person’s ability and
willingness to become responsible for his/her own life and for receiving
My blessings.
Peter: Thank You very much for Your response. Is this all for today?
The Lord Jesus Christ: Yes. It is My pleasure to respond. Have a very
pleasant afternoon, Peter.
Source: DIALOGUES WITH THE LORD JESUS CHRIST PART 1.
