To read aloud

FIFTY SIXTH DIALOGUE

March 19, 1999


Peter: Yesterday I received some interesting and stimulating questions from Roxanne Hardwick of Longview, Texas. Some of those questions are in the form of practical suggestions. Others are questions of spiritual and multiversal significance. I would propose, if I may, to first discuss the practical issues and following that, we can address the spiritual issues. Is it appropriate to proceed this way?

The Lord Jesus Christ: Yes, Peter, it is appropriate. Let’s begin with the practical suggestions.

Peter: A legitimate concern is expressed about the financial situation of the TNR Foundation and the enormity of the cost that printing, mailing, disseminating and telephoning that these Dialogs and other matters require. Yet, as you know, at this point in time, only Tom Oudal of Texas and Gloria and I make any substantial financial contributions to the TNR Foundation’s cause. As these funds come in they are rapidly depleted because of the mentioned cost. In order to rectify this grim situation, it was suggested that we should consider putting certain books of The New Revelation on the market for sale. What is Your opinion about this suggestion?

The Lord Jesus Christ: This suggestion was given with the right and positive intent. However, let Me tell you something about this issue. There are certain things in and about My New Revelation that have a permanent validity. Because of that, they can never be changed or modified. A good example of such a permanency is the absolute requirement that no church, organization, spiritual movement, or whatever of that nature could ever be established based on or founded on the principles of My New Revelation. This requirement will always be true to eternity, no matter who says what and no matter how it would be backed up by all types of miracles and convincing proclamations — even if such an individual were to resurrect someone from death in front of your eyes. This will be true not only about the current New Revelation but, also, about any succeeding one in the future. Now, the same thing is true about any possibility, now or ever, of selling the books of My New Revelation. My New Revelation contains My Word. My Word is not for sale. It must be made available to everyone without a price tag. Besides that, you have absolutely no idea to what tremendous spiritual danger you would be exposing not only My New Revelation but also your personal lives — should such an attempt be made to place them on the market for sale. All of you would become an instant target of the renegades and their minions and they would destroy you.

Don’t forget please, that selling My New Revelation would equal selling Me out for thirty pieces of silver by My so-called disciple, Judas Iscariot. So, please, no matter how good your intention is, in this respect, dispense with that idea once and for all. Purify yourself from such ideas because having them may cause you to become a target for the renegades and their minions. Such ideas come from the human side of your nature. This is the reason why it might attract the renegades to target you.

It is suggested, therefore, that a different approach be taken to resolve the financial situation of the TNR Foundation.

Peter: The second practical suggestion, which I, personally, appreciate very much, is an offer for assisting me personally with the distribution of the books of The New Revelation and especially with these Dialogs. This is suggested to free my time which I spend on printing, mailing, telephoning and similar chores related to the business of the TNR Foundation, in order to devote all my time solely to the recording of these Dialogs and working with You. What is Your input about this suggestion?

The Lord Jesus Christ: At this point in time it is essential that you continue doing things as you have been without any change. Basically, two- thirds of your time is devoted to these Dialogs and working with Me and for Me directly, both on your planet and in the other dimensions. From the standpoint of your spiritual, mental and physical health and balancing, those external chores serve as respite and rest from your important and time-consuming spiritual duties. The only assistance that you need, in this respect, is editing these Dialogs and financial assistance. Dan Barba is helping you with this editing. However, because of his medical problems, I am suggesting to you and to Dan that, in addition to his editing, you should accept Betty and Heather Oudal’s offer to help you with this editing likewise. It is suggested, in all humbleness to Dan, that it would be very beneficial from our standpoint that he spend more time on translation of the Dialogs into Spanish and on the final editing of The New Revelation of The Lord Jesus Christ and Corollaries to The New Revelation of The Lord Jesus Christ. It is spiritually very important and crucial that this work be done as expediently as possible and as Dan’s medical condition would permit. This is so without putting any pressure on Dan or on anyone else.

As far as financial assistance is concerned, it is provided by Tom Oudal and yourself, Peter, and Gloria. Your assistance, Peter, in this respect, has to be limited because of your retirement. Some additional resources either will be provided by someone else or you would have to be satisfied with what is available and manage within the current financial constraints.

Peter: The next more or less practical question relates to our habits to do things in a certain way. This question relates to our routine lifestyle, to our somewhat automatic behaviors regarding such seemingly small and insignificant things as using the same cologne or perfume, the same toothpaste, the same brands of foods, buying at the same stores, reaching for the same products, and similar everyday habits. How may these tendencies negatively influence our lives? Should we recede from them at all?

The Lord Jesus Christ: Well, Peter and Roxanne, it is a matter of common sense how and what to do regarding these things. In your practical everyday life you have to distinguish between convenience, habits, attachments, addictions, dependencies and legitimate individual needs and preferences. Any attachment, addiction and/or dependence may cause you serious spiritual problems. If you cannot live without them, if they become a ruler of your life, obviously you became their slave and your life energies are wasted on them. However, such things as convenience, preference and individual needs are in a totally different category. They are not enslaving. In fact, they are helping you to manage your time better, as well as to be your own individual selves. Take for example, such a seemingly unimportant preference as to prefer a certain type of fragrance in perfume or cologne or in food. Here is an important spiritual correspondence. As you know, each individual is infinitely unique and different. This factor is correspondentially reflected in the very unique and specific body chemistry that you all have. This is the reason why the same fragrance of perfume and cologne smells very different on each individual’s body. So, you prefer to choose the one which is more congruent to your personality and individuality, reflected in your specific body chemistry. The same thing is true about food and other small things of this nature.

As you see from these examples, such things do have very important spiritual correspondences and they do reflect your personal and individual needs. Because of that, they cannot be considered negative or habit-forming in the same manner as the enslaving attachments, addictions and dependencies.

However, despite the fact that they are not, don’t forget about one very important spiritual fact. It is prudent and wise to have a variety of experiences, preferences, and involvements, to not restrict or limit yourself only to any particular one which suits you best at each particular time of your life. It is a good spiritual policy to try many different things and to be open to many different experiences in all aspects of your life even though you will always have some things which will always be preferred and desired by you because of your unique personalized and individualized specific needs. And these are appropriate to have.

Peter: All other questions are of purely spiritual nature. Let me start with the one which can be designated as frustrating. It relates to the issue of spiritual progression and to the never-ending movement toward the Absolute. Because of our relative condition, it is obvious that we can never reach the goal to become as and like You are, in an absolute sense. This can be accomplished only in the relative sense. The issue here is the limitations that our relative condition puts on all of us, no matter where we are located or whatever life we are situated in, at any given moment. Are the feelings of frustration and awareness of these burdensome limitations possible in the spiritual world as they are here in our human life?

The Lord Jesus Christ: In one of the previous Dialogs we were discussing the issue of the possibility of ending one’s life by suicide because of boredom or the never-ending life in the positive state. Whatever was said there about that issue fully applies to the current question. Two aspects exist to this issue. One relates to the structure of each sentient entity’s mind and to the agreement under which his/her individualized and personalized unique life could become reality. The structure of each sentient mind in the positive state is such that, by its very nature, it desires nothing else but to be in a continuous state of progression toward the absolute state without ever having a desire to become this absolute state. This was an agreed-upon arrangement. It is only in human life that such frustrating feelings may occur for the same reasons as was indicated in the mentioned Dialog about the possibility of suicide while living in the positive state. We are not going to repeat them here. Please, carefully reread that Dialog. Don’t forget that human life is in a state of the most unimaginably restricting, limiting and ignorant condition possible of any other known or unknown life. Because of that, only from the position of your specific human life can these types of questions, concerns and ideas enter your mind.

The second aspect relates to the issue of the infinite varieties of experiences that are being provided by this particular arrangement. If you face eternal progression toward My Absolute State, because of the nature of its absoluteness it contains infinite varieties of possibilities and creative and incentive stimulation which inspire the sentient mind to strive to know more, to understand more, to apply more and to accomplish more. By the fulfillment of these needs, in a continuous and progressive mode, there is a base and foundation for constant change in the structure and dynamics of one’s own life and in one’s personality and individuality. In the process of this most desirable progression, one becomes always different and more unique. That way one is able to approximate My Absolute Nature more and more. At the same time, this arrangement provides everyone with the utmost assurance that never will there be a condition during which one would come to the end of one’s development, growth, and progression, being prevented from becoming always different and more unique. Thus, in this respect, this is the most desirable setup that exists for life in the positive state.

What you have to understand, in this respect, Peter and Roxanne, is that before any sentient entity came to his/her unique, individualized and personalized life, in their ideas contained in My Absolute State, I and all My sentient ideas were very carefully exploring all possibilities under which their life could become external reality apart from being only My ideas. In the process of that exploration, the best possible and most desirable mode of life was found and established which is founded on continuous spiritual progression. Because we all unanimously agreed that the selected mode of life was the only one possible and the only one feasible for the eternal benefit of all, it was that life which was put into motion or which was chosen by all of us. At the same time, any need or desire to come to some kind of ending of this process or reaching the Absolute State, and from there going nowhere, was eliminated from the content of every sentient mind in the positive state.

It is only in human life and in life of the negative state that such a desire exists. This condition in human life and in the negative state stems from the temporality of their pseudo-being and pseudo-existence. Because of their unconscious desire to end that kind of pseudo-life, a need was implanted into their mind to come to some kind of ultimate conclusion, or reach some kind of ultimate goal in order to get out of their miserable life. Can you at all imagine what would happen if all of you in human life and in the life of the negative state were to have exactly the same conditions as people have in the positive state? Can you see clearly that, in that case, no one ever would want to get out of their human life and life of the negative state? Once again, and I repeat, the negative state could not be eliminated, and human life with all its atrocities and abominations would have to stay forever. As a consequence of this impossible outcome, the fullness and completeness of life of the positive state could never be instituted to eternity. In that case, everyone in the positive state really would want to terminate their lives for good and forever. Such things are impossible to ever happen. By the above mentioned agreement, it was provided that only the above described arrangement would be in place and that only in human life and in the life of the negative state such negative ideas could occur for their own sake, so that they would not be bogged down in their miserable pseudo-life forever.

Peter: The next question relates to the spiritual correspondence of your 12 disciples. We know only of Peter, James and John and to what they correspond (Peter corresponds to Your Divine Truth and Wisdom, John corresponds to Your Divine Good and Love and James to Your Divine Positive Works and Faith). What about others? Is there any relevance to the 12 dimensions? What about other dimensions?

The Lord Jesus Christ: Similarity exists between the correspondences of My twelve disciples and the twelve tribes of the children of Israel. Some of these correspondences were properly described in the book, Reality, Myths & Illusions, pages 503-505. It would be a good idea to familiarize yourself with that description.

However, there is another spiritual correspondence as related to My disciples. The number twelve or twelve disciples, signifies and corresponds to the totality of all remains of good and truth, with all their derivatives, that were hidden in the farthest recesses of everyone’s mind, in its deepest unconscious region, and from which everyone lived and was alive on planet Zero in the typical human life. That I was, in most instances, always accompanied by My disciples signifies that I functioned only from the position of the positive state rooted in My Absolute Divine Good and Truth. The fundamentals of the positive state and My Nature are Divine Love and Divine Good, Divine Wisdom and Divine Truth and Divine Positive Works and Faith. In the old conceptualization of the words ‘Positive Works,’ we used to say ‘charity.’ As you know, the word ‘charity’, under the presently existing spiritual conditions, is no longer appropriate to use. In human terms, it has too much negative connotation. Very often it applies to giving support to the negative state and to some human organizations which are of the negative origin, with an obscure selfish purpose in their design. Therefore, it was replaced with the words ‘positive works’.

The above mentioned fundamentals and essentials of My True Nature were represented by My three disciples — Peter, John and James. The various infinite derivatives of these most important fundamentals and essentials are represented by the rest of My nine disciples. At this point in time it is not appropriate to go into the details of what specific derivatives each disciple represents. From the functional standpoint, they are of similar nature as described in the above mentioned book, pages 503-505.

However, as you know, in the initial setup, one of the twelve disciples — Judas Iscariot — betrayed Me. Later on, by the cast lots, a new disciple was chosen — Matthias — to replace Judas. It was necessary to do so in order to continue in the representation and preservation of unity and integration of the positive state as projected to planet Zero.

The original setup with My disciples has an entirely different spiritual correspondence which has so far not been revealed. It corresponds to the original state of My Creation before activation of the negative state. In that state, no effort was made to put into an active mode or to actualize and realize the idea of rejecting Me as the only source of life. However, as the development of all sentient entities continued and as they learned more and more about all aspects of their specific life (this learning is represented by teaching My disciples about various spiritual issues during My incarnation on planet Zero), gradually the question about any other type of life other than the life of the positive state, entered their mind. This entrance is represented by Judas’ willingness to sell Me out. In this respect, Judas Iscariot represents the pseudo-creators who decided to answer that question by fabricating the other type of life, or pseudo-life, to be exact. Thus, by doing that, Judas was cut off from being My disciple, as the pseudo-creators were cut off from My positive State and thrown out into the Zone of Displacement where they established the proverbial Hells. Judas’ voluntary ending of his own life by hanging himself represents total and irrevocable termination of the negative state — once it fulfills its purpose. That he felt remorse and recognized the fact that he betrayed an innocent blood signifies that all originators of and participants in the life of the negative state and human life will eventually recognize the foolishness of their endeavors and will accept the fact that the only true reality is in the life of the positive state. Therefore, as Judas voluntarily terminated his life, so will they voluntarily terminate the life of the negative state and the evil and false aspects of their own negative life. Symbolically speaking, they will hang that life so that it could never be reactivated again.

No one knows that by Judas’ admission of his guilt and by acknowledging My innocence, he eventually was redeemed by Me. I forgave him on the spot. However, it took a very long time, in your conceptualization of time, for him to accept My forgiveness and, in turn, to forgive himself. He recognized very clearly the need to bear and to illustrate the consequences of his evil deed. Thus, he was his own judge, prosecutor and executioner. But once that illustration completed its course, he was able to accept My forgiveness and forgive himself and he returned to My fold.

From the standpoint of the structural nature of My Creation and pseudo- creation, My first three disciples correspond to the Spiritual Mind and its three degrees and to the Spiritual Dimension and its three degrees; the second three disciples correspond to the interior mind and its three degrees, as well as to the intermediate dimension and its three degrees; and the last three disciples correspond to the external mind and its three degrees, as well as to the physical dimension and its three degrees. This is the significance of the number twelve in the discussed connotation only. Judas Iscariot in this respect corresponded and represented the most outward degree of the most external level of the external mind and physical dimension. This represents the fact that only in the most external degree, and no other, any need to activate the negative state through the betrayal of the positive state, and put it into dominance, could occur.

The twelve dimensional factors as they are conceived in the space-time continuum through which the physical universe discharges its being and existence, have no relevance to the discussed issue. They have a totally different meaning. At this point in time you are not ready to know more about them. Certain things need to be accomplished and established first before any light could be shed on their function. In your present condition, being that you are in the human skin and living on planet Zero, such knowledge could be detrimental to you. Should anything change in this respect, you will be informed accordingly.

Peter: The next question relates to the ‘exact’ place of Your birth on this planet and to The Via Dolorosa, said to be the traditional pathway designated as the way You carried the cross, as depicted in all those commercialized tourist books. The question is if any of those places are the exact place where You were born, died, walked, etc., or is every place just a trap for so-called Christians who want to emulate Your suffering?

The Lord Jesus Christ: Some aspects of this question were indirectly explained in one of the previous Dialogs which dealt with the issue of why it was necessary for Me to be born in that particular region (the land of Canaan) and why the Islam religion originated there likewise. Also, some aspects of why I was born as a Jew were revealed in Update 9 of the Corollaries... .

Let Me go into this issue a little further. For very important spiritual reasons, I had to be born in the town of Bethlehem. This is in fulfillment of the prophecy recorded in the Book of the prophet Micah, Chapter 5, verse 2, and I quote, ‘But you, Bethlehem Ephrathah, though you are little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of you shall come forth to Me The One to be ruler of Israel, whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.’ It is interesting to note that in the Gospel According to Matthew, this verse is quoted in a somewhat different fashion (all quotes are taken from The New King James Version of the Holy Bible). Let Me quote it also, ‘But you, Bethlehem, in the land of Judah, are not the least among the rulers of Judah; for out of you shall come a Ruler who will shepherd My people Israel.’ (Matthew 2:6).

My birth in the town of Bethlehem, which was the least significant and the smallest of them all, signifies My choice to humble Myself and to lower Myself to the lowest possible level of human life, as well as to the most external one. You have to understand very clearly that, from the spiritual standpoint, any birth or beginning of My life on your planet in any other place other than the lowest of the lowest and the smallest of the smallest would not only exclude anyone from the sphere of My needed influence and, most importantly, from My need to gather all necessary and vital experiences, but it would bypass all situated in those regions from their being eventually saved and liberated from the negative state. The rule here is that if you want to include in your experiential mode everything, without exception and exclusion, you have to start from the least and the smallest and proceed from there to all other levels. Otherwise, you would leave out the basics on which the origin of life, in our case, of the pseudo-life, was initiated. This is the reason why I had to be born, not only in Bethlehem, which at that time corresponded to the discussed position, but also, in its most outward and lowest place — in a manger, the place for animals. As you see from this positioning, there was no possible lower and more humble abode to be born in than the manger. Also, such a choice on My part, besides the described corresponding significance, reflects My Absolute Humility, Modesty, Innocence and Humbleness. All other places in the discussed land where I walked and performed My work, also had very important spiritual correspondences which enabled Me to acquire everything that I needed for the purpose of My entrance into the Hells and for the lockup of the pseudo-creators. At this point in time it would be difficult for you to grasp what those correspondences are and how they were utilized by Me for that purpose.

So, in answering Roxanne’s question, yes, all those designated places in the Holy Bible were the places where I was born, walked, did My work and was crucified.

Peter: What about her question about the town of Nazareth that supposedly didn’t exist and was set up later on to trap Christian tourists? Also, about the issue of Your being a Nazarene?

The Lord Jesus Christ: There was a community of Nazarenes which, later on, came to be known under the name of Nazareth. It was named so by association to the Nazarenes. This is obvious from verse 23, Chapter 2 in Matthew, and I quote, ‘And he came and dwelt in a city called Nazareth, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophets, “He shall be called a Nazarene.”’ So there is some credence to the existence of such a community, turned into a city. Nazarenes were the ones who were committed to never shave their heads. This was so in order to illustrate the sanctity of the wholeness of one’s spirit, soul and body which had been continuously violated by all traditions, conventions and customs of that time. It also corresponded to the positive spiritual powers that couldn’t be defeated or corrupted by the forces of the negative state, no matter how much or for how long and with what deviance they would try to do so. This is the reason why I became a Nazarene and lived in a Nazarene community. This also is the reason why Samson, who was a Nazarene, was blinded when he was lulled by his female lover into sleep during which she was able to shave off his hair, making him, thus, powerless. As you see, all these events and happenings have a very important spiritual significance and correspondence.

Peter: Roxanne’s next question has a similar connotation, as above. It relates to the Jews’ crossing of the Red Sea which parted in front of them and which they were able to cross on dry land. Some people claim it was a mistranslation and it was really supposed to have been ‘the Reed Sea’ which is in a different location altogether and is much narrower and shallower. Is there any truth in this?

The Lord Jesus Christ: Well, as with the above doubts about the place of My birth, etc., the same applies here. Again, there are very important spiritual correspondences in the entire story of the Red Sea crossing, and with the life of the children of Israel in Egypt and their various escapades. Don’t forget one thing, though: The negative state has been making an all- out effort to discredit all Biblical stories regarding anything and especially regarding My activities during that time. So, they came out with their own versions of how things happened in order to undermine the true meaning of those events. If you don’t have the right knowledge about the real meaning, significance and correspondences of those events, or whatever it is, they cannot trigger in your mind the proper perception of the true spiritual reality. In that case, you will accept falsities about anything. In this case, you would accept something that couldn’t connect you to the true positive state. Only through such proper corresponding means, up to a certain point, could humans have been connected to the positive state.

As you know, any life, including the human life and pseudo-life of the negative state depends, in an ultimate sense, on some feasible connection to the positive state, and ultimately to Me. For people in the negative state and humans of those times, such a connection was provided by the spiritual correspondences of certain physical places, events, external depictions and symbols and their respective functions. This is why such correspondences were established. What you have to clearly understand in this respect, is that if it were not for the negative state and human life, no such correspondences would be needed. It was for their sake and for the sake of giving them an opportunity to experiment in the life of the negative state and human life that they were instituted. The positive state, in itself and by itself, does not need to have correspondences. Everything is clear and obvious to them without any need of their symbolical depictions. However, in order to not contaminate the purity of the positive state’s life by the nature of the negative state, and to generate life force energies into the life of the negative state and human life, it was necessary to come up with a certain setup which would make such intercommunication possible without any outward understanding of and influence on each other or without any direct connections between the two states. The function of correspondences serves this purpose well. So, the negative state does not want people to know that they live and function only through the mode of spiritual correspondences, be they positive or negative, and that they live and are alive only by them. Therefore, they distort and falsify anything related to these important issues as recorded, for example, in the Bible.

As you remember from My New Revelation — the Big Book — in Chapter 23, it was indicated there that My government of planet Zero is executed through an illustrative mode in the form of spiritual correspondences. At the time of the Old Testament, certain people, as well as certain nations, lands, events, happenings and setups on planet Zero played a very important role in representing significant spiritual factors and correspondences which reflected the process of spiritual developments in the spiritual world, as well as of the pseudo-spiritual world. Also, they represented the nature of combat which was going on between the forces of the positive state and the negative state. As you remember from the mentioned chapter in the Big Book, at that time humans were in an extreme state of externalization and ritualization without any sense of the internal spiritual states. Because of this factor, in order to keep them alive and living, it was necessary to devise such representative modes for them which would maintain their connection to the spiritual world, the world of pure internal states. The only way they could be kept in some awareness, albeit an obscure one, of the true spiritual reality, was through these types of representative depictions. Also, they needed to witness all kinds of miraculous works which could not be explained by any other external factors but only by spiritual ones.

The story of the children of Israel, and their life in the land of Egypt, as well as their liberation and exodus from that land and wandering in the desert for 40 years, as well as their entrance into the land of Canaan, and what they did there and how they behaved, served these important representations. Thus, in this respect, you can conceptualize them as a symbolization of life in the negative state from which they were being liberated by My Divine Providence, represented here by Moses. Being in the negative state signifies being in the Hells. Coming out of the Hells is possible only by a one way route — from the lowest hell, through all other levels of the Hells to the very exit from the Hells. The Red Sea represents the deepest hell through which everyone in the negative state has to go, in order to bear the consequences of their evil and false lifestyle. Because I am the only one who can bring out anyone from the Hells, or in this case, from the negative state in general, I personally protect everyone who agrees to convert to the positive state. This is depicted by the pillar of cloud which stood between the children of Israel and the forces of the Hells. Notice please, it was the light in the night to one side, in this case, to the children of Israel, and at the same time it was a cloud and darkness to the other side, in this case, to the forces of evils of the Hells. Whereas it brought protection, salvation and enlightenment to those who were in the process of conversion to the positive state, at the same time it brought obscurity, confusion and blindness to the attacking negative side. As you remember, any time you brought the positive state into a closer proximity to the negative state, everyone in the negative state was exposed to their own misery, confusion, turmoil and insanity. Thus, they experienced typical traits of their own nature in the fullness of its manifestation. Without such a proximity, they fully deny that they have such a nature.

Of course, the situation is entirely different now than it was at that time. However, that event still signifies and corresponds to, or depicts, the process of bringing out all who trapped themselves in the negative state of the Hells from its clutches, and their return to the positive state. It is depicted here by the entrance of the children of Israel into the land of Canaan. The total elimination and destruction of the negative state is depicted by the Pharaoh and his armies who pursued the children of Israel into the Red Sea after it was divided into two sides, and which was brought back to its former condition, while he and his horses, chariots and armies were still in its midst and after the children of Israel left it. So, as you see from these symbolical depictions, because of the spiritual need to illustrate everything in concrete, tangible and physically and externally realistic events, such things described in the Holy Bible literally had to happen. At that time, it was the only way anything spiritual could be manifested on planet Zero and in human life. Thus, in response to Roxanne’s question, yes, it was the Red Sea, and yes, it all happened the way it is described in the Bible for the above mentioned important spiritual reasons.

Peter: Thank You very much for this revelation and explanation. I think I’ve exhausted all the posed questions at this time. Is there anything else You wish to add or to comment on?

The Lord Jesus Christ: No, Peter, it should be enough. Have a nice evening.

FIFTY SIXTH DIALOGUE

Source: DIALOGUES WITH THE LORD JESUS ​​CHRIST PART 1.


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