EIGHTY FOURTH DIALOGUE

May 29, 1999, Moscow, Russia

Peter: As You know, for some reason or other, the issue of the Book of Revelation in the Bible (Apocalypse), as such, continues to be on my mind. The question, of course, is: Is there anything at all, contained in that book, that has relevance to the present and future state of affairs on planet Zero, in human life and to the outcome of the negative state? Or whatever was written in that book had been fulfilled somewhere else, in the World of Spirits, for example (Intermediate world), as Swedenborg claimed, and therefore, has no relevance to anything in human life and any other type of life? And if it had already been fulfilled, then why is it that it is still so much on my mind and why so many diverse interpretations and explanations of this book’s content exist and continuously spring up among religious zealots on this planet? Something is seriously troubling me about this whole issue. Do You think it would be a good idea to talk about it at this time? Of course, before answering my question, perhaps You would like to talk about something first. I would gladly yield this time to Your input into anything You feel is timely and appropriate.

The Lord Jesus Christ: Thank you, Peter, for allowing Me to talk first. Just a brief comment about something you experienced yesterday. As you were taking your morning walk, after finishing your recording of our Eighty Third Dialog, at one place on the street, on its sidewalk, a pathetic man was sitting in a very uncomfortable (from your point of view) crouching posture. He was preoccupied with his meager belongings, consisting of a few items, going through them, one by one, without any apparent purpose or goal. His look was emaciated and he was dirty, filthy, smelly, unkempt, paying attention to no one and to nothing, not looking at anyone or on anything in particular. He looked to you, Peter, so miserable and so out of place, that your heart sank and you felt both revulsion and compassion at the same time. Approximately 40 minutes later, as you were returning from your walk, the man in question was still present at the same place, sitting or crouching in the same posture, doing exactly the same things without any obvious alteration in anything in his posture or position or in his meaningless activities, related to a very few belongings of his. When you returned home to Lyudmila and Victor’s place, you forgot about that man.

Then, during the late afternoon, after your meal, you took another walk by the same place. To your surprise, at the same place, there was the same man, who at this time was lying down on the sidewalk, sleeping, again in a very uncomfortable (from your view) fetus-type position with two or three scattered pieces of french rolls. At this time you were really shocked by the whole scene, thinking that, perhaps there is some message contained for you in this strange encounter. Again, as you were walking back, approximately an hour later by the same place, the man in question continued to sleep in the same posture, at the same place, with the same scattered french rolls. His look, appearance and behavior were bizarre, chaotic, confusing, pathetic and meaningless. Your first thought was that maybe, this man is either drunk or mentally ill or both. But looking at him from your clinical perspective, although he could fit into both of these diagnostic categories, there was something more about him and his looks than just mental illness and/or alcoholism. Again, as you were walking by, you felt almost uncontrollable revulsion and compassion. You almost felt as if you should do something about him and his condition. Interestingly enough, a multitude of people were walking by that man, without paying any attention to him, as if they were used to or expecting to see something like that on a daily basis. Taking into consideration that you are in Moscow, Russia, and taking into consideration the terrible economic situation that people in this country have been experiencing, it is obvious that such scenes as that are common occurrences for them. So they go by them as if nothing is happening.

As you were pondering about the fate of that man, Peter, you became curious why it was necessary for you to encounter a strange man like that and why situations like that were permitted to happen at all, and why even worse things than that were permitted to happen and what the lessons from this experience were/are for you personally, Peter.

As you know, being what you are and who you are, Peter, nothing is by coincidence in your case. By the example of this case, we wanted to bring to your attention a vivid, concrete and factual depiction of the nature of the negative state. That man was the very embodiment, illustration and demonstration of what the negative state is all about and how it looks in its true essence and substance, stripped of all its fake appearances. This is the reason why the man in question looked like more than just a mentally ill person and/or an alcoholic. In your clinical practice in the mental health field, Peter, you were used to encountering people who were mentally ill or alcoholics or drug addicts or all of the above. And yet, they didn’t evoke exactly the same feelings as the man in question. It was obvious to you that there was something more to that man than just being a mentally ill person and/or alcoholic. His purpose was to set up a living, vivid, concrete and obvious example of the nature of the negative state.

No matter how the negative state appears to be from the outside observation, its true nature contains nothing more than what you saw in the condition of that man. People like that agreed to this illustration and it was permitted by Me to have such concrete examples so that the true nature of the negative state could be exposed and become obvious to all. Your feelings of revulsion in this case were in response to the obvious nature of the negative state. Your feelings of compassion were in response to the need to save everyone from the negative state and to give them an opportunity to come back to the positive state. At the same time, Peter, you were wondering how it is possible for someone like that man, in his overall condition, to be saved from the negative state and to be converted to the positive state. After all, he looked like an empty shell without any spark of anything rational and salvageable. And you were telling yourself: Could the presence of The Lord Jesus Christ be in a man like that? Is there anything in that man that would make it possible for him to understand what his condition is all about so that he could be transformed? How is it possible for a man like that to have anything even remotely resembling free will, free choice and the ability to change?

Based on these questions, you were starting to doubt, Peter, whether the basic premises of My New Revelation were correct and whether you misunderstood something about the whole concept of The New Revelation and whether the situation with the ending of the negative state and converting everyone in it to the positive state was correct and feasible at all. How is it possible for someone like that man to be loved and cared for by Me or by anyone of you? After all, the revulsion portion of your feelings toward men like that was/is overwhelming. Feelings of revulsion are inconsistent with feelings of love and caring.

Well, here we have again the issue of seeing things as they are at or on the scene and not behind it. Moreover, you were looking at the whole scene from the position of your relativity as well as from the position of very little, if no knowledge at all, why someone like that man can even exist. On the other hand, I am looking on men like that from the position of My Absolute Knowledge of all reasons for something like that to be in any type of life. In other words, I see them always as they really are behind the scene in their very essence and substance. If someone agreed to illustrate even such unimaginable extremes of the nature of the negative state, as the case is with the man in question, how could I, from the position of My Absolute Love and its Absolute Wisdom, not love and care for such a man and not preserve in him a spark of something generated from Me which will be utilized by Me for saving him and bringing him back to the positive state? In fact, I am thankful and grateful for individuals like that for agreeing to be a vivid, concrete, tangible and factual illustration of the nature of the negative state and to what the pseudo-life of the negative state, in its outcome, leads.

Notice please, the french rolls which were scattered around that man. You were wondering: How in the heck did they appear if that man had never moved from that position? Who provided him with those rolls? After all, they were not present when you walked by that man in the morning. Obviously, someone had compassion on that man and provided him with those rolls. What does the appearance of the french rolls tell you, Peter? What is the spiritual correspondence here? As you know so well, spiritually speaking, I am the Bread of Life, represented here by the french rolls. I provide for everyone the means of survival no matter who it is or where he/she is or how negative and/or evil he/she might be. No matter what, everyone is fed by My life.

At the same time, the french rolls represent very obviously that even men like that are not absolutely negative or evil. Even with men like that, around them and in them there is something present which is of Me, of My Absolute Goodness, Love and Care. By that presence, they are able to fulfill their purpose, for which they were allowed to be the way they are. The indication is very clear here: No one and nothing would be able to proceed in doing, representing, illustrating, demonstrating and being the way they are or agreed to without My feeding them with My Life-Bread. That My Life-Bread is misused, abused and discarded by them every time after they eat it, as represented by the scattered french rolls around the man in question, is another story. Nevertheless, it is always available to them and it will be utilized in the ultimate outcome of their purpose, for which they agreed to be, for saving them from their dire condition.

In a general sense of this experience, Peter, the lesson here is very obvious: This is how the negative state will end. All its efforts, no matter how much they seem to be beneficial and profitable in their interim manifestation, will come to nothing else but what the man in question demonstrated and illustrated to you, Peter. Thus, it will end in nothingness and total meaninglessness. All those multitudes of individuals who by their own free will and choice voluntarily participated in the pseudo-life of the negative state, illustrating all aspects of its pseudo-life, will be rewarded for their effort by being reawakened from their condition and subsequently saved.

At the same time, as you were seeing that man in one position, without any obvious change, sitting or lying down on the sidewalk, it became obvious to you that by representing the factual and actual nature of the negative state, he was a reflection of the current state of affairs in the negative state in general and human life in particular. In this sense, the indication was that the negative state is stagnant, unprogressive, unchangeable in its true nature (it doesn’t want to change anything) and unmovable. It is going nowhere. In actuality, the only way it is going, as was obvious from the condition of the man in question, is backward, being utterly regressive and senseless, going toward its ultimate doom and eternal death. Such a movement is no movement at all. Whatever ends in its ultimate death and non-being and non-existence cannot be considered to be in true motion. The only true motion possible, from the spiritual standpoint, is forward and onward toward a higher, more progressive level of being and existence.

If the negative state was built on everything opposing the nature of the positive state, which is in the state of continuous unceasing progression, then it is obvious that the negative state would be built on continuous regression and degradation. Otherwise, it would not be the negative state. Based on this factor, logically speaking, if something is in the process of continuous regression and degradation, then it ends up shrinking in all aspects of its life, or pseudo-life in this case, with a total loss of all and any energies that are able to support its pseudo-being and pseudo-existence. In that case, as this regression and degradation takes place, gradually all energies become completely and totally depleted, and nothing is left that would enable continuation of this pseudo-being and pseudo-existence. At that point in time, the negative state will become non-existent also by the simple fact of its regressive and shrinking mode.

This logical outcome and setup clearly indicates, once again, that the negative state, by its very pseudo-essential and pseudo-substantial nature, cannot continue forever to eternity. Only something which is moving onward and forward, in a progressive mode, can and may continue in that mode because it is continuously expanding, and in the process of its expansion, it is multiplying its energies which serve to eternally maintain this progression and expansion. As you know, Peter, this nature of the positive state stems from My Absolute Nature. It clearly tells you that I am the One Who is in an absolute, eternal and continuous mode of progression, movement, expansion and manifestation. Therefore, anything that is derived from Me Personally, is also in such a mode.

Because, as you know, the negative state didn’t derive from Me, but from the opposition of anything that is in Me and from Me, it couldn’t establish the same mode. For that reason, it is exactly like the man you saw on that sidewalk — it is dying in an absolute sense.

And this brings us obliquely to the answering of your question, Peter, about the content of the Book of Revelation in the Holy Bible. In reality, in the true reality of its content, in one of the many aspects of its internal sense, that book describes the nature of the negative state, its final outcome and the process of its elimination and closure of this cycle of time. If you carefully consider the offered description of the negative state in that book, then the negative state looks exactly like the man whom we described or mentioned above. Besides all of that, that book also describes the Nature of God and the process of acquirement of My New Nature and how this New Nature will impact the entire Creation and pseudo-creation and what its outcome for all will be. It also describes the ending of the human era in the Intermediate World, the spiritual combat in the process of this ending, the process of the Last Judgment in general and the building and establishment of the fullness and completeness of life of the positive state.

As you know, Peter, all books in the Holy Bible that contain the inner, spiritual sense (35 books altogether), including the Book of Revelation (Apocalypse), have multiple meanings and many levels of interpretation. Because of the fact that the inner, spiritual sense is of the spiritual world, which is not time-space bound, anything written in those books, and especially in the Revelation-Apocalypse, in some way or other, is applicable to all times, all conditions, all states and all places in the entire being and existence and pseudo-being and pseudo-existence. However, when you apply their meaning to some place and condition like planet Zero, for example, which is time-space bound, the tendency is to interpret their content in the frame of past, present and future and with local and limited application to the human destiny only.

Looking at the content and meaning of the Apocalypse from a typical human perspective, in linear time and space, some levels of the inner spiritual sense of this book, almost in its entirety (but not entirely), had been fulfilled as of some time ago. The problem with the human understanding and interpretation of the content of this book, is that they limit its application only to human life on planet Zero. And although it is correct to assume that whatever is written in that book has some important relevance to humans, it was not applicable to humans living on planet Zero as much as it was applicable to their destiny in the Intermediate World. Thus, you can say, that most of the content of that book, as applied to that world, has already been fulfilled.

However, humans are able to see and discern, in most instances, only one level of the content and meaning of that book — the literal level which does not make too much sense for them. The literal level is too confusing and mysterious for them. But because they are unable to ascertain any other level, they have been trying for many centuries, since it was written, to figure out what it really means and signifies in its literal sense only. Due to the fact that the literal sense has no sense, in order to make some sense out of it, the interpreters of the Apocalypse have come up with many diverse, very often contradictory understandings and interpretations of its content as it could be applied to human life and its destiny only. Thus, once again, and we are repeating this for the sake of a reminder, they see things only as they appear on and at the scene and not behind the scene. The literal interpretation equals seeing things as they appear on and at the scene. Because anyone looking at the scene does so from his/her own perspective, which is unique, personalized and individualized, they all ascribe to the events happening on the scene different meanings and connotations. Hence, the many diverse and contradictory interpretations of the content of books such as the Apocalypse.

On the spiritual level of its understanding and interpretation, which is seeing things behind the scene, whatever is contained in the Book of Revelation-Apocalypse, has a totally different meaning and connotation. As mentioned above, it applies to everything which was, is and will be happening during this particular cycle of time. As you know, it is in the current cycle of time that the negative state was permitted to be activated, put into pseudo-motion, illustrating and demonstrating its lifestyle. Because of that whatever was written in the Apocalypse, in its inner spiritual sense, will have some relevance to the very end of this cycle of time. Looking at the events described in that book from this perspective, you can say for sure that some things described there have already been fulfilled, some are in the process of being fulfilled and some will be in the process of being fulfilled as this cycle of time continues to its grand finale and ending.

However, bear in mind please, — and I am reminding you about this once again — that one important factor as related to the Apocalypse is that whatever is written there, in the majority of its aspects, happened, is happening and will be happening in some other dimensions and not that much on the literal planet Zero. The complete fulfillment of all aspects and levels of the Apocalypse will take place elsewhere with the obvious ramifications, in their ultimate manifestation, to the life of humans on planet Zero. Many things will be reflected on the inner, spiritual level of the human mind and in their specific lifestyle. However, because there are always some important consequences which this specific lifestyle produces on the external levels of events that take place on planet Zero, it appears as though all things and events, as described in the Apocalypse, have been and will be unfolding and taking place literally on planet Zero.

Thus, as you see from these facts, whatever is written in the Apocalypse has relevance either to something happening in other dimensions, or in the inner sanctums of the human spiritual mind or both simultaneously. In their external application to the events on planet Zero, such events are only the consequences of activities on those two levels without their roots or causative factors in anything literally happening on planet Zero.

However, there is one more understanding to the content of the Apocalypse that needs to be mentioned. It relates to something that is reflected in the relationship which exists between the Absolute State and the relative state. Conveyance of any knowledge from the Absolute to the relative is apportioned to the degree of the ability which anything relative has in its unique nature. It is in this process, the process of titration, that, under the influence of the existing negative state and its effort, this knowledge and application of its principles, could become diluted, corrupted, distorted and falsified. The entire content of the Apocalypse, in this particular aspect, deals with the consequences, results and outcomes of this corruption, distortion and falsification. Whatever becomes corrupted, distorted or falsified, by its nature, brings upon itself judgment and retribution. The Apocalypse, in its content, contains the forms, ways, means and processes of this judgment and retribution. In other words, on some levels, the Apocalypse serves as a warning of what could happen or what the outcome would be if anyone were to internalize these corruptions, distortions and falsifications so that they would become the only identity of one’s life. In some ways, you can conceive the writings of the Apocalypse as a preventive measure for anything of that nature from ever happening.

Of course, there are many other aspects to the content of the Apocalypse and to what it means and to what and to whom it applies than just mentioned above. However, the knowledge of these aspects is unavailable to you or to anyone in the negative state at this time. It either relates to something which is not of human life and therefore, it wouldn’t make any sense to you, or to those aspects of the negative state on one side and to the positive state and the Works of My Divine Providence on the other side, which would be totally outside of the human mind’s ability to comprehend and apprehend. For that reason nothing more can be said about this issue.

Peter: Thank You very much for this explanation. There is one more question that I would like to ask. It relates to something written in Chapter 10:4 in the Book of Revelation-Apocalypse. I quote: ‘Now when the seven thunders uttered their voices, I was about to write; but I heard a voice from heaven, saying to me, “Seal up the thing which the seven thunders uttered, and do not write them”’. Is it appropriate and timely for us to know what it was that the seven thunders uttered and who or what those seven thunders are?

The Lord Jesus Christ: Yes, Peter, it is. Because whatever the seven thunders uttered at that time and to what their uttering was applicable has already happened, it is safe for you to know about it. Spiritually speaking, the seven thunders represent and signify, among many other things, the Absolute All-inclusive Power, Control, Dominion, Insight and Foresight of My Divine Providence as related to the course of the entire being and existence — My Creation, and to the pseudo-being and pseudo- existence of the pseudo-creation and to the human life. From that position, and specifically from the position of My Absolute Knowledge and Foresight, a prediction was made about something which was going to happen or, to be precise, which had already been in the process of happening but which would not be finished until some time in the future. This most important and most significant event relates to something which was sworn by the Angel, standing on the sea and the earth, that in the day when the seventh Angel will sound his trumpet, the mystery of God will be finished, as He/She predicted through His/Her prophets (verses 6-7 in Chapter 10).

The seven thunders, from the position of what they spiritually signify in the current connotation of their meaning, were predicting the Absolute change in the Nature of God. They were saying that a totally New Nature of God would come to its most desirable fruition and that God would become in His/Her fullness and completeness The Lord Jesus Christ to eternity and that there would be no other God, or no other Nature of God but only and only The Lord Jesus Christ. This information was meant at that time only and only for the members of the positive state. Under the conditions that existed at that time, for important security reasons, it was not available to the members of the negative state and to humans.

Because the negative state and humans perceive everything in their external connotations, whenever something is uttered in the positive state, for the members of the negative state, as you remember, it sounds like hieroglyphs. However, in the moment you write it down, because the instrument of writing is the instrument of externals and because it is written in the external words, by the factor of this externalization, it becomes available and understandable also to the members of the negative state and to humans. Such knowledge, before the completion of the process which it predicts, would be detrimental for anyone in the negative state and for humans because they would make an all-out effort to prevent it from its occurrence or at least to interfere with this process by whatever means were available to them. Such an interference would result in their annihilation. In order to prevent this from happening, it was necessary to seal until today what the seven thunders were foreseeing or foretelling at that time. And this is all that you need to know about this topic, Peter. Go, rest and have fun.

Peter: Thank You very much for this explanation. I’ll take Your advice.

Source: DIALOGUES WITH THE LORD JESUS ​​CHRIST PART 1.

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