To read aloud
EIGHTH DIALOGUE
January 1, 1999
Peter: Again, I would like to start today by asking You whether You
would like to make any additional comments regarding the content of the
Seventh Dialog.
The Lord Jesus Christ: Actually, I would like to respond to the request
by Rosemarie Fitzpatrick, one of My loyal and faithful servants, to clarify
some issues on punishment and retribution. She would like to receive
clarification about the rights that any one of you, My agents, has to use
the typical human justice system to recover losses sustained as the result
of some criminal activity by an agent of the negative state. She gives an
example in which her mother-in-law suffered from a woman that was
supposed to look after her, and who not only neglected her duties as a
caretaker, but also embezzled all her savings and ruined her, both
financially and perhaps even physically.
Two aspects exist for this particular, or similar, situation. The first
aspect relates to the choices that were made by both the women in
question. Some very important spiritual reasons exist why these two
women got together and why it was necessary for one to play out the role
of a ruthless criminal and the other, the role of helpless victim. In other
words, what was it in the life of the alleged helpless victim that made her
susceptible to get involved with the ruthless criminal? Why was it
necessary for the alleged victim to place herself in a position like that?
And why did the alleged ruthless criminal agree to be a punishing and
retributive rod for the alleged victim? What happened in the life of the
alleged helpless victim that deserves such severe punishment? By what
deeds and why did she need to bring it upon herself?
As you see from these questions, the situation is much more complex
than it seems at first glance. No one knows the real reasons behind these
events. The conscious minds of both individuals have absolutely no
recollection of anything that would predispose them to place themselves
in their roles. Because no objective knowledge is available to anyone for
the spiritual reasons behind all these negative events, and because you
are My positive spiritual agents, from this standpoint, it is clear why it is
impossible for you to judge anyone and why the issue of retribution and
punishment should never be considered by you. In this respect, it is
between those two individuals and the agreement they made to play out
their roles. Some important spiritual lessons exist for all involved, as
well as for the entire being and existence, why such events are allowed to
happen and what the consequences of such interactions are.
The second aspect relates to your duties in this respect as My positive
agents, placed on planet Zero to illustrate and demonstrate the difference
between the agents of the negative state and you. The issue here is
unconditional love rooted in unconditional wisdom. Unconditional love
desires to forgive unconditionally, and unconditional wisdom defines for
its unconditional love what is best for each particular individual. For
example, is it in the best interest of any criminally minded individual to
let him/her go without bearing any consequences for his/her criminal
actions? After all, the choice of that individual was not only to become a
disavowed ruthless criminal but, most importantly, the choice was also to
illustrate and demonstrate the consequences of such a criminal lifestyle.
Thus, the choice was to experience punishment and retribution. And
because the choice was to be negative, which is inherent in the nature of
the negative state, there was also the choice to be punished and
experience the full-fledged retribution for their behavior and action.
In your particular case, you allow that punishment and retribution to
take its course, as required by the human criminal justice system,
without condoning it. As you see, the issue here is in your attitude,
behavior and position toward punishment and retribution, and not in
being their cause, source or means. The issue here is to concentrate on
the factor that even the most horrible criminal, a murderer, or whatever,
is not absolutely evil because, as mentioned many times before, no one
can be absolutely evil. The issue is in respecting that individual’s
need and choice to be punished and bear the retributive
consequences of his/her criminal actions.
From what was said above, it is obvious that there are two approaches
that one is to take in this respect. Whenever something like that happens
to you, your first impulse should be to explore what it is in your
particular life that predisposed you to undergo such an unpleasant and
seemingly damaging experience. On the other hand, respecting the needs
for the other individual to be punished, you may provide him/her with
such an opportunity to be realized — without judging or condemning
him/her.
Because you are in the human life, in this case the only means available
to you is the human criminal justice system, which fulfills the need of
that individual to be punished. In this instance, if it is possible, it is
appropriate for you to recover any losses that you sustained by the
actions of the individual in question. After all, whatever the thief stole
from you was yours and belonged to you; therefore, should he or she be
caught, you should recover what is yours and belongs to you by using the
only means available in human life — the criminal justice system in case
the thief is caught; or by mercy and forgiveness if he or she returns the
stolen goods to you on his/her own. However, your mercy and forgiveness
should be extended to the thief even if he or she is caught, following or
after the implementation of the punishment and retribution required
and chosen by him/her.
It is a different story when it is up to you to decide or whenever you are
put in the position of pressing charges against that individual. In a case
like that, it is upon your sole discretion to impose or not to impose
punishment and call for retribution on that individual. Your decision in
this case depends on that individual’s request for your mercy and
forgiveness. If such a request is made, regardless of whether that
individual means it or not, your spiritual duty is to forgive and show
mercy and not to press charges. Here is the test that is put before you.
The negative state, as well as everyone else in the positive state, will be
carefully watching your decision in this respect. Are you going to forgive
and show mercy upon such an individual, if asked for them — as any
true agent of the positive state and Myself would do? Or are you going to
go after his/her blood, so-to-speak, in your desire to punish him/her,
because you feel violated and so just and deserving — as any agent of the
negative state would do? The first choice sets a valuable example for all
in the negative state of how an agent of the positive state behaves,
making a crucial distinction between the mode of life in the positive state
and the mode of life in the negative state, respectively. The second choice
gives the agents of the negative state the wrong impression that no
difference exists between them and everyone in the positive state. If this
is so, then why bother converting to the positive state? It is all the same.
Do you see from this example how important it is for you to give them
the right answer, and particularly to the pseudo-creators?
Of course, if the individual in question does not ask for your mercy and
forgiveness, no matter how much you are willing to give it to him/her, or
to show it to him/her, it cannot take hold. In that case, allow the criminal
justice system, and not you, to proceed with punishment and retribution.
You may hope that such punishment and retribution may function as a
deterrent for that individual to commit such crimes again.
The only problem with the human criminal justice system is that once it
puts someone in prison, instead of being rehabilitated, that person may
learn better and more efficient ways to commit his/her criminal acts
without being caught. In cases like that, it only means that the
individual in question chose to experience punishment and retribution,
not on this planet, but in some of the respective Hells. There, they cannot
wait for that individual to arrive so they can impose on him/her the most
sadistic punishment available to them. It would be much better to be
punished while still on planet Zero.
Peter: What about Your statement recorded in the Gospels? I quote,
“You have heard that it was said, ‘An eye for an eye and a tooth for a
tooth.’ “But I tell you not to resist an evil person. But whoever slaps you
on your right cheek, turn the other to him also.” (Matthew 5:38-39).
The Lord Jesus Christ: I am glad, Peter, that you brought this
statement to My attention. It does need clarification. Look carefully at
the frame of reference in which it was made and, most importantly, the
conditions that existed on planet Zero at the time it was made. My
statement referred to the demands of Moses’ law to have equal
retribution to the degree and extent that the harm was done. Because it
was/is taken literally, it led to the ridiculous acts of doing to your
neighbor exactly the same things he did to you. So, if he/she plucked out
your eye, you should do the same to him/her.
As you know, Peter, this law is still practiced by many humans and even
governments on your planet. Look at what is going on between Israel and
some Arab nations, for example. If an Israeli is killed by them, the
Israelis immediately retaliate by killing Arabs. And vice versa. Do you
see the perpetuation of this problem? I will kill your people because you
killed mine. Well, now I am going to retaliate by killing your people. The
other nation then feels obligated to do more killing because everybody
expects it. And it can go on like that until they all kill each other. If it
were not for My Divine Providence that intervenes in this matter by
providing some type of mediation by some other nations, they would
really kill each other until they all perish.
The true sense of that type of requirement — an eye for an eye and a
tooth for a tooth — lays down the fact that no negative action can go
without bearing its consequences. This is the justice of the matter. It
does not mean that you have to literally pluck out an eye or extract a
tooth. Any evil act, because it is evil, requires to be validated by its
consequences, outcomes and results. Because such an act is always of
and from the negative state, it is rewarded by the only thing which is
inherent in the nature of the negative state — punishment and
retribution — to the degree and extent of its severity — no more and no
less; thus, ‘an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.’ This is the typical
setup of the negative state.
However, because at the time of My incarnation on planet Zero there was
no other position but the position of the negative state, it was necessary
to bring the reality of the positive state to the attention of humans. This
reality proclaims that the positive state doesn’t contain any notion of
punishment or retribution within its nature because such things as that
are the sole property of the negative state which doesn’t have anything in
common with the positive state. The consequences of any action in the
positive state produce rewards which are positive because no evil deeds
exist within its realm.
On the other hand, the consequences of any action in the negative state
produce rewards which are negative — punishment and retribution —
because no good deeds exist within its realm. This is yielding to the law
of cause and effect. A positive action produces a positive effect. A
negative action produces a negative effect. Remember please, the
negative state was activated solely on everything opposite of what the
nature of the positive state contains and what its nature is. Otherwise, it
would not be the negative state.
So, in this connotation, the quoted statement in Matthew ‘but whoever
slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other to him also,’ signifies that
no agent of the positive state judges anyone in the negative state, no
matter what that person does or how he or she is or behaves. And
‘turning the other cheek’ signifies that such an agent understands that
there are important spiritual reasons why the negative state was
permitted to be activated and why its temporary existence is tolerated by
the positive state, or, in a broader sense, why I permitted its pseudo-
being and pseudo-existence to come to its adverse fruition.
However, there is another aspect to the interpretation of the quoted
saying. It also has a purely individual connotation, related to the agents
of the positive state situated on planet Zero. As you know, Peter, from
your personal life, and the personal lives of all of you who read these
words, the negative state would like to devour, destroy and torture you,
and make your life miserable and unbearable. If it were not for My
personal protection, it would succeed in its efforts in this respect. So,
symbolically and metaphorically speaking, it slaps you continuously on
the cheek. What kind of reaction do you have when you realize that this
is the fact? Do you retaliate against it? Do you judge it for being the way
it is? After all, it is in its nature to be that way and to do this to you.
Instead of becoming bitter, resentful, punitive and retributive; instead of
succumbing to its temptations and efforts to bribe you into being like its
members, you accept these facts about the negative state’s nature and
continue in your endeavors the way you agreed or are supposed to, and
you don’t yield to its pseudo-charms and promises of heavens in their
Hells. You acknowledge the necessity for Me to permit its pseudo-being
and pseudo-existence for the important spiritual learning of all, as
related to the question about life without Me and My spiritual principles;
and for the purpose of the choices that need to be made for activating the
fullness and completeness of life in the positive state. By doing it just like
that, you symbolically turn the other cheek to be slapped by the negative
state.
Still, there is another individual connotation to this statement. The
agents of the negative state continuously deride you, put you down,
ridicule you, badmouth you, consider you to be crazy, useless and
inefficient in the matters of their world; very often they say that you are
no different or no better than them because externally you look like
them, you walk like them, you talk like them, you even get angry,
frustrated, discouraged and disappointed; sometimes you even use bad
language, curse, judge, condemn, and you do and manifest in your
behavior many similar things. In their view, you are no more valuable,
deserving or special than they are. So, in that case, what is the difference
between the agents of the negative state and agents of the positive state,
respectively? In other words, they slapped you on the right cheek. Notice
please, the spiritual correspondence of the right cheek. It corresponds to
the nature of the positive state. In the view of the negative state, the
positive state is very bad, as bad as described above about you or even
worse. So, it spits on it, it slaps it and it ridicules it on a continuous
basis.
On the other hand, the left cheek corresponds, in this particular
connotation, to the nature of the negative state which is exactly the way
that it ascribes it to you, or in a general sense, to the positive state. So,
symbolically speaking, you turn your left cheek to the one who slapped
you on your right cheek and you allow him/her to slap you also on it. By
allowing that, you are telling the negative state that, first of all, it is the
negative state whose nature is the way it ascribes it to you and therefore,
it should be slapped; and secondly, and most importantly, by doing that,
you admit to the negative state that without The Lord Jesus Christ you
would be exactly the way the negative state is.
Because of your relative nature, and we are reiterating this again and
again, without My Absolute Goodness, Love, Mercy, Forgiveness and
Compassion; without My continuously extending these attributes into
you, you would be just like them. And this is what the quoted verse
signifies — nothing else. Do you see My point and the logic of My
statements at that time?
Peter: Absolutely. And I thank You very much. Talking about biblical
quotations, it brings to my mind another question which is asked
frequently by the readers and practitioners of Your New Revelation:
Should they also continue to read the Holy Bible together with reading
Your New Revelation, or is the reading of Your New Revelation sufficient
for their continuous spiritual growth and progression?
The Lord Jesus Christ: Well, Peter, it depends on their choices and
preferences. No one is prohibited or demanded to stop or not to read
anything, including the Bible. It all depends on how one understands the
reading material, what one puts into its meaning and content and to
what extent one wants to apply the Bible’s principles in one’s life. As you
know, and this is repeated to refresh your memory, the Bible basically
contains two types of books. One type has an inner, spiritual meaning,
the other type has none. The type that has no such meaning has only
historical value. It reflects the status of the spiritual condition,
atmosphere and climate that existed at the time it was written. For that
reason, whatever principles and guidelines they gave for living and
practicing life in accordance with the spiritual requirements of those
times, they are, in most instances, not applicable to the present time.
Due to this factor, you can clearly see the problem that may arise in one’s
life if one wants to live by those principles.
A good example — and there are many such examples — can be seen by
how the Epistles of the Apostles are formulated. They directly address
the members of the newly established Christian communities or
Christian churches that were in their very initial conception. No one
knew exactly what to do, how to interpret various biblical statements,
how to live in accordance with their requirements and similar matters.
Under those conditions, taking the factor of the quality of life of that time
into consideration, it was necessary to establish some clear guidelines
relevant to the nature of that time. Because for example, male
dominance of the societies of that time was the commonly accepted rule
rather than the exception, Paul came up with the idea of prohibiting
women to speak or to have active participation in the church’s business.
His attitude also stemmed from the faulty and perverted understanding
of the concept of My First Coming, or incarnation into human life.
Everyone assumed that, because I incarnated here as a male figure (and
the reason for this need was explained in Update 9 in the Corollaries... ),
only men can and may speak, rule and guide the members of the church.
So, as you see from this illustration, reading these types of books in the
Bible without properly understanding the historical perspective of the
time during which they were written, could be quite harmful.
Again, this harm can be vividly illustrated by all those numerous
religious sects, within and without the Christian religions, which apply
the various rules and guidelines of those books in their lives without any
consideration for the spiritual requirements of the current time. (Or in
the Islamic religions, which have the most restrictive demands on their
members or followers, especially on their females.) And not only that, but
due to the different understanding and interpretation of the meaning of
the principles formulated in those books, they violently fight amongst
themselves to the point of bloody wars that can rage for decades or even
centuries.
As far as the books that have deeper spiritual meaning and
correspondences are concerned, their reading used to be, before the
availability of My New Revelation, the only source for humankind to
connect with the spiritual reality of My positive state and Me personally.
Even if the prospective reader consciously didn’t know or was unable to
ascertain their inner, spiritual meaning, his/her spiritual mind was able.
From the position of that understanding, the spiritual mind kept the
door open for My life to flow in and allow this planet to keep going.
Without such availability, this planet, and everyone on it, would be
doomed to a spiritual death. In that case, the negative state could not be
eliminated, because no one would know why and for what reasons the
negative state was permitted to come to its adverse fruition.
In other words, no one would be able to trigger that knowledge from the
universal consciousness that is directly connected to the reading of those
books; the reading of which, triggers such vital and crucial knowledge. In
that case, it would be dangerously assumed that the negative state is the
natural state of affairs, originated in My Nature and therefore, must stay
forever.
However, with the availability of My New Revelation and its Updates,
and now with the availability of these Dialogs, the situation has changed
completely. All principles, laws, precepts and whatever one needs for
salvation and continuous spiritual and mental growth and progression,
all information about the negative state and why and for what reasons it
was activated and put into dominance on planet Zero, and why the Zone
of Displacement is permitted to exist, are fully contained in My New
Revelation.
For that reason, if you make a choice not to read the Bible, you are not
endangering yourself spiritually or in any other ways — as the members
of various Christian religions would like you to believe. You are safe.
On the other hand, if you feel the need to read the Bible, together with
reading My New Revelation, it is also acceptable as long as you
understand what was said about it above. Otherwise, it could become a
stumbling block for you, due to the contradictions — in the literal
statements of those books — with what is contained and explained in My
New Revelation.
Don’t forget that the literal meaning of those books can be contradictory,
confusing, mysterious and, very often, misleading. Unless you know and
understand their inner, spiritual meaning, they really can become a
stumbling block for you.
In that case you would immediately become a target for the agents of the
negative state who love, cherish and propagate the literal sense of the
Bible. Their purpose for doing so, is to continue the constant quarrels,
fights and intolerance among all religions, incited by the various
different understandings and interpretations of their literal meaning.
Due to the fact that the inner, spiritual and symbolic meaning of the
relevant books of the Bible is not fully available to anyone, and will not
be available to anyone until the end of the negative state — because of
security reasons (the danger that the renegades, their minions and other
agents of the negative state will misuse the correspondences), it is
obvious the kind of problems their prospective reader may face. So, the
choice is yours. So are the consequences, as you like to say it, Peter.
Peter: I appreciate this explanation very much. Should I continue asking
other questions as raised by Rosemarie or should we make it the subject
of our next Dialog?
The Lord Jesus Christ: My recommendation would be to continue
tomorrow and include them in the Ninth Dialog. Your physical body is
tired. After all, you have been up since 3 o’clock this morning. It would be
a good idea to take a rest now. Have a nice day.
Peter: Again, I thank You very much for giving me this opportunity to
dialog with You.
Source: DIALOGUES WITH THE LORD JESUS CHRIST PART 1.
