ONE HUNDRED AND NINETEENTH DIALOGUE

October 25, 1999

Peter: My Lord Jesus Christ, to tell You the truth, I have tremendous difficulties in recording Dialogs that relate to the behavior and position of some specific individuals who were/are connected, in some way or other, to Your New Revelation and who are allegedly under the influence of the negative state/renegades. Talking about them and their spiritual or pseudo-spiritual standing, and what they propagate by their questionable or even spiritually dangerous ideas, seems to me too much like an imposition on my part. After all, don’t they have the right and privilege to be the way they want to be and propagate anything they want to, no matter how false and spiritually dangerous it might be? My personal preference during the recording of these Dialogs is to deal with the issues which are not related specifically to anyone’s individual standing, behavior or position. Of course, what do I know about what is best and most appropriate from Your standpoint and not mine in this respect?

The Lord Jesus Christ: I understand and appreciate your concerns and difficulties in this respect, Peter. They would be legitimate and appropriate if they would relate to someone who was/is not involved, in some way or other, with My New Revelation. However, in the moment you have someone who claims to be My follower or who presumes or thinks that he/she is in contact with Me and that the ideas he/she propagates are coming from Me, but they are not, and he/she is not in contact with Me or anyone from the positive state, then you have a totally different situation here. This is especially true if such an individual had/has a strong influence on other members of My New Revelation or My representatives. After all, anyone who distorts, falsifies, misrepresents and deviates from the ideas of My New Revelation, and who claims that her/his ideas are its integral part, coming directly from Me, needs to be warned about his/her misperception, misinterpretation and being under the influence of the negative state/renegades. After all, it is My New Revelation we are talking about!

There are three issues here: One, such a warning gives an opportunity to the one who is in this adverse position, to amend his/her ways and to get rid of his/her distorted and false ideas, thus, coming back to the positive state and to the truth of My New Revelation. How else could such an individual recognize the fact that he/she is under the influence of the negative state? If you are firmly convinced or unshakably believe that your false and spiritually dangerous ideas are coming from Me, or from someone in the positive state, you would have no needs, desires or motivation to get rid of them. So, you bring these facts to their attention and you offer them an opportunity to recede from their spiritually negative standing in this respect. Whether they take heed or not, is an entirely different story. It is at this point that they have to make a decision, based on their free will and choice, whether to accept or not to accept our offer.

Two, the truth of the matter had to be exposed. Otherwise, the danger exists that some other people, who know such an individual, would consider him/her to be My messenger and would tend to agree with his/her false and distorted ideas, only because they believe that they are coming from Me by means of such an individual, regardless of the fact that, very often, they couldn’t understand a word the individual in question was saying or conveying to them. How many people have told you, Peter, that they truly believed that the individual in question was in contact with Me and the reason they could not understand a word contained in the ideas conveyed to them by that individual, was that she/he was on a spiritually much higher level of understanding of the true reality of the spiritual facts than they were? Now, this is the real falsity of this assumption. This is a very dangerous assumption, endorsing the false self-perception and the false role of the individual in question. Anyone who was saying that or thinking that, was, in fact, reinforcing the position of the individual in question. In the past, even you, Peter, had momentary doubts in this respect, telling yourself that, maybe, just maybe, your perception regarding that individual was wrong and that it was quite possible that the reasons you had very uneasy feelings about the ideas expressed by that individual were that she was on a much higher spiritual level than you were at that time.

What you have to understand in this respect is that, if someone really is on a so-called higher spiritual level than someone else, then that kind of standing doesn’t signify that whatever ideas such an individual would be expressing, these ideas would be unapproachable, difficult or impossible to understand. Just the opposite is true: The higher someone is spiritually, the simpler and more understandable are his/her ideas, expressions, behaviors, attitudes, or whatever. And not only that, but such an individual, in all his/her modesty, humbleness and humility, would come down to the spiritual level of others and accommodate his/her spiritual ideas to their level of comprehension and understanding.

So, in this sense, if someone’s ‘spiritual’ ideas are so complex, convoluted and confusing that no one can follow their meaning and content or understand what they are trying to convey to you, in that case, you can be assured that such an individual is either under the influence of the negative state or he/she is an outright representative of the negative state. Only the negative state is capable of producing and conveying such complex, convoluted, confusing and impossible-to-understand pseudo- spiritual ideas. This is the reason, Peter, why everyone, who was in contact with or under the influence of the individual in question, was telling you that they couldn’t understand a word of what was expressed to them by that individual.

I want you all to know that such considerations about someone being on a higher spiritual level than you are, is one of the most dangerous positions you can take. This is one of the most favorite ways for the negative state to trap you into believing and accepting falsities or untruths about anyone or anything. So, how else would anyone know this to be the case, if we were to avoid bringing these facts to everyone’s attention by the means of these Dialogs, for example? If I were to go along with your difficulties and problems, Peter, and avoid bringing these facts to everyone’s attention, in that case, the truth of the matter would never come out into the open but would be simmering somewhere deep in your mind, constantly causing you miserable feelings of uncertainty and hesitation, effectively undermining your ability to discern and accept the truth of this matter.

Three, by bringing this situation into the open, we are giving a needed opportunity to all those who were/are under the influence of any such individual, to acquire a proper, correct and realistic perception of any such individual’s position and his/her true nature and the role he/she was/is playing in this respect. Based on that, they may, if they wish, get rid of accepted false perceptions which they held about the individual in question. By doing that, they may free themselves from any negative influences which they possibly experienced coming from that individual. That way, they may get rid of the falsities and instead, reacquire the truth of the matter. After all, if you believe something about anyone which is not so or that is not true at all, you are laboring under falsities in this matter. The acceptance of any type of falsity puts you under the influence of the negative state. It is the best possible way to be in a state of continuous temptation by the negative state. In fact, by holding on to such a false perception, you are keeping your doors wide open for such a temptation to take place. And I know very well that you don’t want to be in such a situation. This is the reason why we need to talk about these things whenever the situation warrants it.

However, there is another aspect to this issue. It deals with the issue of responsibility and accountability of every individual for whatever he/she did/does or will do. Although this issue was extensively discussed in My New Revelation, especially in the Corollaries to The New Revelation of The Lord Jesus Christ, (Update 13, for example), it needs to be restated once more. It relates directly to the issue discussed in the previous Dialog (118) which dealt with the factors of spiritual ethical- moral consideration of any performed or established act. As you remember from that Dialog, it was indicated there, that regardless of how anything happens, it is happening by an agreement or a permission. No justification, excuse or rationalization could be applied in any such cases. And the reason for this requirement is in the fact that everyone also agreed to be responsible and accountable for his/her behavior, attitudes, deeds, acts, relationships and all his/her productions. The responsibility and accountability factors preclude the possibility of application of any justification, rationalization or excuse about anything which is incongruent with the nature of the positive state and its ultimate Absolute Truth — Me.

What you have to understand in this respect is, that the agreement was also made at that time, or the permission was granted at that time, to illustrate and demonstrate the consequences, results and outcomes of anything related to the activation of the negative state. And not only that, but each individual who found himself/herself in the position of being a representative of the negative state, by his/her own free will and choice, also agreed to be responsible and accountable for whatever he/she would do at any time during his/her being such a representative. In other words, he/she agreed to bear the full consequences of his/her actions, deeds, behaviors, productions (of false ideas, for example, etc.) so that there would be no foundation or basis for excuses, justifications or rationalizations about anything he/she would produce in this negative respect. Thus, it would be spiritually very inappropriate to take it lightly, without any concerns about anything related to the issue of agreement or permission and the need to be responsible and accountable for one’s choices and one’s mode of life in general.

Do you remember what was said about this issue in Update 13 (at the end of it)? That the life of the positive state is rooted in everyone’s taking responsibility and being accountable for all one’s choices and that one has to bear full consequences for the outcomes and results of any such choices. And because life in the positive state is based on these important spiritual factors, in order for the negative state to come to its adverse fruition, it was necessary to recede from this mode, and instead, establish a pseudo-life which would shun any responsibility and accountability for whatever would be the consequences, results and outcomes of its productions. Thus, in this case, in the negative state, either someone else is blamed for whatever such consequences, outcomes or results are, or the existence of the positive state is blamed for them. As you remember, it was stated in The New Revelation of The Lord Jesus Christ that the negative state believes that its problems are the existence and being of the positive state. Destroy or wipe out the positive state, and the negative state will have no problems. On the other hand, if the negative state, and everyone in its pseudo-life is there by My permission and by agreement with the pseudo-creators, in that case, what is the big deal? We are doing only what we are supposed to do and therefore, we are not responsible or accountable for our deeds. In that case, it is I who is responsible and accountable for everything happening in the negative state because, after all, I agreed to it or permitted for it to happen.

These are the typical modes of justifications, excuses and rationalizations which are so prevalent in the position of everyone in the negative state. The only thing that these justifiers and excusers in their rationalization are omitting, is the factor of the agreement to be responsible and accountable for their actions or deeds and for the need to bear their consequences, results and outcomes, without any excuse, justification or rationalization for anything they produce in the course of their entire pseudo-life.

From what was said above, the question may arise: At what point does My unconditional love, mercy, compassion, empathy, understanding, acceptance, forgiveness, kindness, respect, tolerance and appreciation apply in cases like that? As you clearly remember (or don’t remember!) from Dialog 51 (page 444), it was indicated there that the wisdom of this situation requires that these attributes are applied only after illustrating and demonstrating all consequences, outcomes and results of any evil, wrong or bad deeds. In other words, after everyone bears and experiences all consequences of such deeds. This factor precludes any possibility of taking it lightly or justifying, excusing and rationalizing one’s negative and evil deeds, actions, ideas, behaviors or productions. And this is the spiritual ethical-moral aspect of the whole situation with the negative state and everyone of the negative state, as well as with the issue of agreement and permission. Nothing more can be ascribed to it. Therefore, never ever use the factor of agreement or permission for excusing, justifying or rationalizing your behavior, attitude, deeds, lifestyle or whatever you have, so that you don’t end up being under the influence of the negative state. A true representative of Mine or of My positive state, by the factor of the nature of being such, will always take full responsibility and will be fully accountable for everything in his/her life, behavior, attitude, deeds and productions, no matter what they might be. He/she would never use the factor of our agreement or permission for excusing, justifying or rationalizing them. And this is all that I wanted to tell you about your difficulties and worries in this respect, Peter.

Peter: Thank You very much for Your explanation of this situation and for putting up with my personal difficulties and problems in this respect. Before asking my question, is there anything else You would like to talk about at this time?

The Lord Jesus Christ: Just a brief note on something that happened while you were in the process of recording this portion of our dialoging. As you were almost at the end of this portion in recording, your phone rang. You were surprised to hear the ring because it was too early in the morning for anyone to want to talk with you. When you picked up the phone, you found Margaret on the other end of the line. This time, she sounded considerably desperate and more sincere in her desire to get help or to get out of being under the influence of the ideas of the renegades than the case was when she called you the first time. As we all hoped, she has taken the second very important step in her effort to come back to the positive state, and to relinquish her current position and to make a different choice.

The third step, which she, or anyone else in a similar position, would need to take is the most important and crucial one. It is in this step that one needs to recognize and accept the fact of who she/he was/is, what his/her position and role was/is in this respect, and to show and express from the bottom of her/his heart, by the factor of her/his free will and choice, a willingness and strong desire to make a different choice, to relinquish all ideas, concepts, attitudes, and productions which she/he was expressing, and with which she/he was identifying herself/himself, considering them to be true and positive, while they were not; and instead, to accept, internalize and promulgate by the example of her/his life and behavior, all ideas, concepts, principles and precepts of My New Revelation in all its three sources so that they become the ruling factor of his/her life. As you know, and as it has been repeated many times before, anyone can come out of his/her role, position or whatever of the negative nature only by the means of My New Revelation and, in an ultimate sense, by the means of My New Nature from which My New Revelation derives. So, getting rid of all other ideas, concepts and thoughts which are incongruent with My New Revelation, prepares the way for the ideas of My New Revelation to enter such an individual and to initiate the process of his/her true transformation. We all hope that this third step will be taken and effectively accomplished.

Peter: And I sincerely hope so as well. Well, here comes my question. I am not sure if it has any relevance to the above discussed issues, although some aspects of it might. As You know, for some time now, I have been thinking and pondering about the second and third chapters of the Apocalypse in the Christian Bible. In those chapters You are sending messages to the various churches. Swedenborg extensively wrote about those issues in his two books Apocalypse Explained and Apocalypse Revealed. I don’t want to repeat whatever is contained in those books. My question is if there is anything in those two chapters that would have any relevance to our position, role and standing as Your representatives or if whatever was revealed through Swedenborg stands as it is and therefore, has no meaning for the present time or for the nature of the presently ongoing shift and its current phase. How contemporary or current would anything in those chapters be as related to our own lives?

The Lord Jesus Christ: There is a very strong relevance of what was conveyed above to your question, Peter. Although Swedenborg’s description has a somewhat different meaning, and it relates to the state of affairs both in the intermediate world and on planet Zero in the so- called churches, some of the ideas expressed by him in this respect could be applied to the present situation. Of course, as you know, the word ‘church’ in the present connotation of its meaning, no longer applies to you. Instead, you can conceive it as a spiritual standing of any individual who expresses and identifies himself/herself with any spiritual or pseudo-spiritual ideas and concepts, adopted by him/her under the influence of this or that teaching, dogma, doctrine or principles. In this aspect it has relevance to the above discussed issue.

Let us very briefly reiterate what was revealed in Swedenborg’s Apocalypse Revealed in this respect. As you know, I was sending messages to the seven churches. In the present conceptualization of the meaning of the words ‘seven churches,’ they denote the summary of all teachings, doctrines and dogmas, adopted by various individuals, groups, societies, churches and to what extent they have been influencing or applied in their personal and individualized lives. Before going into our very brief reiteration, a note of warning is in order: The names of the cities in those two chapters in no way have any relevance to the actual physical cities spread throughout your planet. Please, whatever was said by Swedenborg, or whatever is being said right now about them, does not have anything to do with those physical entities. For that reason, in no way should you be preoccupied with their physical designation. They have none whatsoever.

The church of Ephesus means all those who are primarily preoccupied with the truth of their doctrine or with the truth of their understanding of all spiritual ideas and concepts, but who neglect or disregard goods of life. In other words, these are those who know and accept the spiritual truths but who fail to apply that knowledge into the deeds of their life.

The church of Smyrna means all those who are in goods as far as their life is concerned but who are in falsities as far as their understanding of the reality of the true spirituality is concerned, or, to use Swedenborg’s words, those who are in falsities as far as their doctrine is concerned. In other words, these are those people who consider only what is good but who neglect or disregard what is true. This is something which can be considered as love without wisdom or good without truth.

The church of Pergamos denotes all those who reduce the meaning of life to only that which is good, and reject the fact that the proper knowledge, understanding and acceptance of truth has any redeeming quality or meaning at all, and therefore, truth has very little role to play in one’s life. In other words, these people think that it doesn’t really matter what kind of spiritual ideas, concepts or doctrines you are identified with. If you are a good person, or if your life is rooted in good and love, it is sufficient for leading a proper spiritual life. In this respect, such love lacks any wisdom.

The church of Thyatira describes those individuals who are in faith from positive works (charity) as well as those who are in faith but without any positive works (charity). These are people who function from the position of faith, believing that either faith alone has any meaning, or faith combined with positive works is the most significant ingredient of the proper spiritual life. In this particular case, you have here two extremes in conceptualization of the content of the true spiritual life. One extreme claims that only faith has any meaning at all, while everything else is superfluous; while the other extreme correctly assumes that faith needs to be combined with positive works in order to have any true spiritual meaning.

The church of Sardis denotes all those individuals who are in dead worship, the worship that doesn’t contain anything, either of faith or of positive works or of both. These individuals are preoccupied only with ritualistic, dogmatic and procedural aspects of worshiping God but who have no inclination or desire to know the truth and to apply it in their everyday life by means of performing positive works or deeds. In this sense, such individuals are spiritually dead.

The church of Philadelphia describes those individuals who know the truth and its source and who are both in truth and its good and in good and its truth. In other words, these individuals recognize that all truth and its good and all good and its truth stem from Me — The Lord Jesus Christ, and the meaning of life is not only in knowing and understanding the truth but in being good from that truth and to ascribe it to the right source — Me.

And finally, the church of Laodicea denotes all those individuals who alternately believe that everything stems from themselves alone without any regard for My Word or Me as the source of everything true and good; or, from time to time, they believe that everything regarding the spiritual issues should be derived from My Word. By doing that, by vacillating between one extreme or the other, they put themselves into the condition of profanation of everything which is truly holy, proper and right. Also, these individuals, at one time or another, believe that they don’t need Me or anything related to My Word, for leading a proper spiritual life but that they themselves, by their own merit, can do so. At some other times however, they do accept the fact that only from Me, by Me, through Me, with Me and of Me, such a proper spiritual life can be led. From the example of these individuals you can see how the profanation of everything holy, proper and correct can occur. One day, they deny Me and My Word, and the next day they acknowledge Me and My Word.

So, these are some very brief reiterations about the meaning of those two chapters in the Apocalypse as described by Swedenborg. How does all this apply to your current situation and to you as being My true representative? First of all, you need to understand the entire structure of the mentioned two chapters (Chapter Two and Chapter Three of the Apocalypse). If you look at them carefully, you will notice that four levels in their content exist. The first level relates to the description of Me and of My Future New Nature. As you noticed, during My addressing each church or what it spiritually represents, I spoke from an entirely different aspect of My Nature. The reason for this need relates to the spiritual position that each respective church, and the degree of its spiritual falsifications, distortions or, in some cases, spiritual appropriateness, was at that time. That position and its situation and condition required an approach from a different aspect of My Nature in order to bring to everyone’s attention what kind of spiritual aspects are being violated or acknowledged, respectively, by each church.

The second level deals with the description of the true spiritual state of each respective church. To what extent is their conceptualization, understanding and application of the true spiritual factors of life in agreement or congruent with the true spiritual reality of such life? Is their spirituality really what it is supposed to be? What are the factors of deviation, falsification, disregard and distortions in their accepted doctrines and dogmas? Which aspects of their spirituality are in such a state and therefore, need immediate amendments, corrections or replacement?

The third level shows the way or gives proper steps or procedures for amendment, correction or replacement, or getting rid, whenever needed, of their current inappropriate conceptualization, understanding and application of all spiritual principles and from what position and how this can be done.

And the fourth level describes all consequences, results and outcomes of their life practices based on their conceptualization, understanding and application of all spiritual ideas adopted by their teachings, doctrines and dogmas. In other words, they were made fully responsible and accountable for everything that they promulgated in them and the way they led their life. Do you see, Peter, how everything in this portion of our Dialog has a direct relevance to that which we were talking about in its first portion, as well as in the previous Dialog (118)?

Peter: Yes, I see it clearly. It makes perfect sense to me. If someone is in distortions, falsifications, misinterpretations and misrepresentations of any spiritual ideas coming from You, such an individual would be described by the state and condition of one of the above seven churches. In that case, everything described in the four levels of those two chapters would have full applicability to any one of us who would be in a similar position — be it a positive or a negative one.

The Lord Jesus Christ: Exactly, Peter. That we are dealing here with pure spiritual issues is denoted by the word ‘angel.’ Notice, please, My messages were sent to the angel of each church and not directly to the churches themselves. The word ‘angel,’ in this particular connotation, signifies the conglomeration of spiritual ideas, concepts and principles and the mode of their application in the lives of those who accept and follow them in the manner reflected in their everyday life. Because of this connotation, the message goes out to those responsible for producing, generating, interpreting and enforcing all such ideas, concepts and principles. How do all these things relate to My true representatives on planet Zero in general and to what is contained in My New Revelation, as well as to My New Absolute Nature in particular? Because My representatives, who are either overtly or covertly connected to My New Revelation, the way they comprehend, apprehend, accept, internalize and practice its principles in their everyday life; the way their attitude, behavior, deeds, actions and productions are manifested; as well as the way they understand, accept and see My New Absolute Nature, determines their current spiritual position and standing. Therefore, anything implied in any of those seven possibilities, as represented by the churches in question, fully applies to your spiritual life as well.

Your duty, responsibility and accountability in this respect is to carefully examine and search out your particular attitude toward Me, My New Revelation and to everything related to the spiritual issues. Take, for example, someone who was initially an immensely eager follower of My New Revelation and who loved deeply everything related to it (Ephesus). Yet, as time went by, and nothing of too great a significance was happening to you or around you, and every day hassles and problems of survival on planet Zero were taking its toll on you, your first love of and infatuation with My New Revelation was gradually fading away. At one point in time, you lost your intense interest in anything related to Me and My New Revelation and your connection to it became a matter of your lips only, without any deeper feelings for anything related to it. The message to you in this respect is, should you find yourself in this category, to repent or amend your ways and to recall and return to your first works or to your first loving and eager following and practicing of everything related to Me and to My New Revelation.

Or take, for example, the situation in which you find yourself being thrown out of your home by your spouse or boy/girlfriend, or from your job, or from your community standing, from your church or from any other similar important factors of your life on planet Zero because of your belonging to Me and My New Revelation (Smyrna). The danger of this situation would be in your tendency to hide your affiliation with Me and My New Revelation in order to avoid anything of this nature happening to you. Or you would tend to go along with what your spouse, friend or whoever/whatever demanded from you, compromising your spiritual integrity, and by that factor, effectively destroying your relationship with Me and My New Revelation, fallaciously thinking that, if you keep all things related to Me and My New Revelation secretly within yourself, and at the same time, compromising with their demands, then your spiritual integrity is intact and your relationship with Me and My New Revelation is fully preserved and proper. How could you think anything of this nature if your relationships with the external factors of your life become more important than your relationship with Me and My New Revelation? Or take, for example, the possible tendencies of some of you to consider any other ideas, concepts and teachings besides and in addition to My New Revelation, as something which is also either coming from Me or its practices could serve for enhancing and enriching your spiritual life rooted in My New Revelation and in My New Nature (Pergamos and Thyatira). In other words, you would mix their ideas, concepts, products or whatever they have with everything contained in My New Revelation and My New Nature. This would result in total pollution, poison, corruption and contamination of everything contained in My New Revelation, making it void and an empty shell used to contain the distortions and falsities of those other ones.

Or take, for example, the possibility that could exist in some of you to consider My New Revelation as a dogmatic, ritualistic means to perform certain external motions without any true spiritual inner factors on which the entirety of My positive state stands and functions and on which My New Revelation is built. If this were the case with any one of you, and if you would consider it to be dogmatic and externalized, and if you would accept it as such, you would become spiritually dead (Sardis). This is a warning to never consider anything in My New Revelation dogmatic, catholic, protestant or anything else prevalent in your external manifestation amongst all your religious and pseudo-spiritual trends. Or take, for example, those of you who would have a tendency to believe that they were able, by their own merit, by and from themselves, without My involvement or without My New Revelation, to arrive at the point of acceptance of My New Revelation (Laodicea). By taking such an attitude, you would become spiritually blind and naked. Again, this is a warning to never fall into this kind of trap. Of course, you do have amongst you those who, from the bottom of their heart, from the love of good and truth, and their spiritual marriage, fully accept, for the sake of principles themselves, without any ulterior reasons, My New Nature and everything contained in all three sources of My New Revelation and put it into your practice and into all aspects of your life (Philadelphia). So, in essence, we can say, with the text of the mentioned two chapters, ‘He/she who has an ear, let him/her hear what I say to you all’ (I paraphrased it!). And this is all that we needed to talk about this issue, or anything else, today. Have a nice day with our Rosemarie who is visiting you in Santa Barbara.

Peter: Thank You very, very much for this revelation.

Source: DIALOGUES WITH THE LORD JESUS ​​CHRIST PART 2.

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